Monday, May 08, 2006


Reader Challenge

I have received the following comment, on my June 2005 post about convicted arsonist Jeff Luers. Sections in italics are where he has quoted my writing.
I hope you don't let the fact that somebody is stooping low enough to post on this joke of a blog go to your head, but what the hell.
Charming isn't he? He then challenges me on my principal assertion about Indymedia:
"As a largely unmoderated, unrestricted medium it was promptly over-run by ... Nazis confusing free-speech with hate-speech."

Show me a fascist post on an Indymedia page. I doubt you can. If you can, however, show me a Nazi post that wasn't met with stern resistance from an overwhelming majority of readers.
Readers... Feel free to provide a response in comments. Not only is there an abundance of fascist, racist, antisemitic, sexist and libellous material on Indymedia, there are numerous examples on this site of various Indymedia sites where Nazi posts remained visible on the newswire, whereas any opposition to them was hidden by moderators, who some believe were part of the former group.
"His compassion for the motor vehicle dealer is unending..."

Why should someone who's concerned about the ecological well-being of our planet be remotely concerned with someone who's complicit in its destruction?
This is apparently the justification for his burning down a car dealer. Nice. Perhaps he should be "concerned" because we are living in a society?
"Popular with what sort of "activist"? Let me guess. The non-violent kind?"

That's right. He was convicted of non-violent acts against property that no one is entitled to.

"Excuse me, why do you need to organize a specifically "non-violent" protest? Is violence assumed unless otherwise stated?"

Of course violence isn't assumed unless otherwise stated. However, in the incredibly diverse anarchist movement, violence is a gray area. Some believe in violence, and some believe in strict nonviolence. It is appropriate to make a distinction and let people know what kind of event they'll be attending.
There are also people who "believe" in rape and murder. Is it appropriate to make a distinction for their benefit as well? Do you believe you are doing your movement any favors?
"Err, no. I think you'll find it's a deterrent to arsonists."

Potayto potahto.

"Bloggers in Iranian prisons are political prisoners. Dissidents in China are political prisoners. Idiots that set fire to things are not political prisoners and calling them as such is an insult to people who genuinely did nothing wrong except think. Sadly, it was the lack of thinking which got him into prison in the first place. Maybe Luers can think about it now."

I can assure you there's a profound philosophy behind the majority of acts of eco-sabotage, including Mr. Luers'. Feel free to actually educate yourself on the matter. "Burning Rage of a Dying Planet", and "Eco-Defense: A Field Guide to Monkeywrenching" would be good places to start. Otherwise quit regurgitating the ignorance that's already polluted your mind.

I think you're just wrapped up in the stigma of fires and explosions. Tell me, what do you think about the Boston Tea Party? Would you have disapproved if they set fire to the tea instead of dropping it into the sea?
Gee. The guy attacked a car dealership.... What a hero! Such a profound philosopher! Try looking up Gandhi.
"More on this poster-boy for arsonists and criminal 'activists' at his support website, Free Jeff Luers where you can read the pitiful excuses that "no one got hurt" and they "caused only" $40 000 damage. If you can't do the time..."

No one did get hurt. He merely provided an economic incentive (monetary loss) and a psychological incentive (fire) for a business that's doing harm to our planet to stop. Whether he did 40,000 dollars of damage or 40,000,000 is immaterial. More needs to be done.
More incitement to criminal activity by an Indymedia advocate. Past cases here and here.
And obviously, he can do the time, seeing as he's... doing the time. Every person involved in direct action knows the consequences of what he's doing. Because unfortunately, all too often, what is right does not coincide with what is legal.
If he can "do the time", why does he need a movement to free him?

I like how anarchists claim to be a "movement." A socialist is just as evil by any other name. And speaking of socialists, people forget that nazism is a socialist LEFT wing movement. The only reason nazism is identified with the right is because the right has been misidentified as being racists, where as the left has not. Nazism has nothing to do with libertariansim and therefore should not be identified as a movement of the right.
"Show me a fascist post on an Indymedia page. I doubt you can. If you can, however, show me a Nazi post that wasn't met with stern resistance from an overwhelming majority of readers."

Hah! I'm especially reminded of all the hidden comments, such as here and here, plus not to forget the blatantly anti-semitic, and blatantly false stuff like the post here.
Ahem...he wants PROOF of Nazi-esque material on Indymedia? I've actually been saving links to posts of many different blogs in my personal Favorite Places, for use in research and news articles I write in a Boston newspaper. I have 22 examples (out of 42 total) saved under "Anti-Semitism" that come from Indymedia ; 29 under "Insane politics" ; and a whopping 35 under "Conspiracy Lunatics". He wants proof? I have it for him
Faruque often illustrates his messages with quotes supposedly written by Jews.

I think he is getting these quotes from Radio Islam (I won't post a link). It is a website run by Ahmed Rami who is a Morrocan but given asylum in Sweden. Wikipedia has a good article about him. Apparently he is now out of favour with neo nazis because he may have fathered a child with a white woman.

Radio Islam features a subsite called 1000 quotes by and about Jews as well as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Faruque constantly posts Holocaust denial, while advocating a new Holocaust if Iran is not allowed to develop its nuclear program.

He advocates for the veracity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and quotes books with titles like Le Probleme Juif.

He launches Denial of Service attacks against Indymedia sites, but this is not enough to get his posts hidden.

On South African Indymedia he quoted Sheldon Emry, who appears to be part of the right wing Christian Identity movement (wikipedia has an article).

This is another example where leftwing anti-zionism ends up embracing Islamic anti-semitism, white neo-nazism and far right Christian sects.

A google search of Sheldon Emry indymedia reveals 133 entries.
'I like how anarchists claim to be a "movement."'

As far as I'm concerned, a 'movement' is something that happens in my bowels soon after lunch. The end product can be compared to the results that end up in Indymedia websites across the world, including the source of this complaint.
Yellow stars? And the rest of the thread is quite interesting.

Nessie's comments are interesting. This is the guy who runs and posts under "debate coach" and "zionism is racism" and a few other names...always refers to "bunk logic" and "an ad hominem is not a rebuttal," etc. He says he hates something like 99% of Jews. He also says that Zionism is by definition racism and that it is perfectly acceptable to use lethal force against racists. Perhaps even more blantantly anti-semitic at times is Sheepdog of LA-IMC, who once said "I hate 95% of Jews" and a couple comments later "I hate 95% of asshole."

Also on IndyBay some 17 year old neo-nazi left a few comments a few weeks ago defending the neo-nazi movement and their recent rally in Sacramento...but truthfully, all of us ignored him, because that's what got him to go away, he certainly wasn't listening to logic.
“Show me a fascist post on an Indymedia page. I doubt you can. If you can, however, show me a Nazi post that wasn't met with stern resistance from an overwhelming majority of readers.”

I don’t think that there are a lot of fascist comments on Indymedia sites, but there are plenty of totalitarian and un-democratic ones. I don’t want to throw around the ‘fascist’ term like they do at Indymedia simply because it devalues and confuses its meaning.

But just because Indymedia does not espouse fascism per-say does not exclude them from other disgusting ideologies. The IM network claims to give us news that the “corporate media won’t”, and in many ways that is true. Mainstream media has major problems, but the conspiracy theories and downright undocumented opinions presented as news at Indymedia is worse.

I recommend this individual who wants to see Indymedia’s commitment to free speech simple look at the posts deemed disruptive by the editors. It is bad enough that IM publishes half truths and lies, but to then ban anyone who tries to clarify or correct the misinformation is despicable.
>Nessie's comments are interesting.

Try Googling "nessie Indymedia" and see what comes up.
The following post is fresh (as if there's anything fresh about anti-Semitism) from the pages of Melbourne Indymedia. Finally, someone had the guts to write "Jews" instead of trying to be PC and write "Zionist"

"There is a sordid secret. Our society has been infiltrated by parasites intent on our destruction. It's being played down by our so-called media i.e. those who administer our soma.

Where is the outrage? When will the pogroms start against those who treat us as used toilet paper? Those who think nothing of spilling our brains onto dirty streets if we so much as question their right to treat us as used toilet paper?

What sort of doormats are we? Too stupid, too dumb, too pathetic to raise a whimper. Fuck us all. We deserve what they have planned.

Yaweh's plan, a Tom Hurndall for you all. Sluts, gutter slime, dirt, goy filth.

But don't look sideways at your Jewish masters or they will off you.

Where will you hear about this latest delight? Your ABC? The one run by Jewish 5th columnists?

Ha hahahahahaha I don't think so.

"Australian hurt".

"Shot protester's injuries 'not life threatening'."

So what happened? Not much, the Jewish/Israeli filth shot an Aussie in the head with a rubber bullet causing a brain bleed and possible death because he had the audacity to film the Israeli "Defence" Force attacking peaceful Palestinian protesters. So what? Isn't it just like the Coalition of the Willing shooting Iraqis who resent the invasion and occupation of their land?

Yes it is. It is exactly the same.

Isn't it time we purged this aggressive war mongering filth from our system?

There will never be an end to war while this psychotic racist cult exists.

Kill them all - Let their psychotic delusion decide"

And, of course, the obligatory reference to anal sex that seems to go hand-in-hand with anti-Semitism

"Nasty man!
by How could he!? Sunday May 14, 2006 at 01:01 AM

Oh that's awful news! Has John Howard apologised and offered to lick every Israeli arsehole clean yet?"
Thank you.

I have just blogged this story here.
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