Tuesday, February 22, 2005


Nazi Teachers?

How many times have we heard this story?

Fascist! Nazi!

These are all terms being used in this article and subsequent comments to describe the teacher.
"What is this a military state? Where do you think you are Nazi Germany (Heil Furor!)"
This guy looks and acts just like Himmler. Sieg Heil! Hail the Fuhrer!
Download the video (and note the kids laughing in the background) of this incident.

The student in question (Jay) did not wish his surname to be revealed. Apparently that same courtesy did not apply to the teacher, Mr Mantel whose email address, phone number and other contact details were published so opponents of his actions could 'share their thoughts' with him.
Jay said that he didn't have any political reasons for his refusal to stand but that he wanted to sit because he feels it is his right to do so and that right was being threatened by Mantel. Jay said that he thought Mantel might tell him to stand, but he never expected to be physically forced to do so.
Sorry. As soon as he said he had no political reason for doing it, it stopped being a civil rights issue as some of the Indymedia writers insist. When he argues he did it because he thought Mantel "might tell him to stand", it sounds to me like he was simply being a smart-ass.

I think it's fantastic that schoolkids are politically active, especially when they form their own conclusions rather than having them shoved down their throat by teachers (or student organizations). This grossly immature example of 'activism' (i.e. being a smart-ass rebel without a cause) has made the perpetrator a poster-boy for Indymedia. Compare his juvenile antics to this poster boy on the other hand.

Looking back to my friends' grade-school attempts at having teachers fired, suspended or whacked, I must also wonder why someone else just 'happened' to be videoing it for later use.

Back in my day the teacher would have grabbed him, dragged him to outside and belted him with a stick of bamboo.

These no-good civil libertarians are preventing teachers from providing proper education. What about the right of other kids to learn while this smart-arse harasses his teacher?
I disagree. It's a civil rights issue because the law states that the student has the right to stand or not stand, regardless of his reason. In other words, the student has the right to exercise his rights just for the sake of exercising them.

The students may have been laughing and joking around (which most of us do as kids) but that does not give the teacher the right to pull out the chair from the student
Have you watched the video?
The student was not beaten over the head with the chair, nor as far as I can see was he in any physical danger whatsoever.

Yes the teacher looks like he went to the Ayatollah's school of stress-management, but in relation to the chair, I don't believe he was as monstrous as is being made out. The kid (and his friend) was a smart-ass obviously looking for trouble, and that's where it should have ended.

Unfortunately, it hasn't. I believe however that to make a civil-rights issue out of this non-event however trivializes real civil-rights issues worldwide which frequently won't receive anywhere near as much attention.

Thanks for visiting.
My two cents: I refuse to say the pledge of allegiance until it is formally amended and the words "under G-d" are removed. I am a firm believer in the concept of the separation of church and state (note I said "the concept of" so that all the right -wingers don't chime in to "inform" me that the Constitution does not contain that exact phrase). Anonymous is right about the student's right to exercise his rights just for the sake of exercising them. I also have issues around anyone being made to feel like they need to pledge allegiance to one flag alone. This will no doubt enrage some people, but as long as we have people oin this country from elsewhaere, there will always be cases in which persons will feel compelled to serve in the armed forces of another country and they should not be penalized for that. The Lincoln Brigade, machalniks who have fought for Israel and Americans volunteering during the Bosnian conflict are all appropriate examples. The teacher does not have the right to demand that the student stand and participate in the recitation of the POA. He should have used the student' refusal as the springboard for a civics lesson for the class. At least, that's what I would have done.
Hi Mark,

I am more concerned with the hate that is being expressed on Indymedia.

Sure, some may think (as I do) that this is a storm in a teacup or that the student was a provocateur, who got what was coming. Others may strongly disagree with what happened.

But "Nazi"?
I am more concerned with the hate that is being expressed on Indymedia.
But "Nazi"?

Yeah, watcher, I agree with you here. This is an extreme reaction.

Amazing how we can disagree without calling eachother a fascist Nazi, isn't it? ;o)> Unlike some people (IMC) we know.
This kid is on the way to becoming a Nazi. He's like Prince Harry or something. First they don't stand for the national anthem, then they sing the German one, wear SS uniforms to parties and convert to Islam.

Teachers should be able to hang a kid if they mess around. Seriously. Especially if they wear hijabs in France and stuff. Rules are rules are rules.

I see a lot of crazy shite on this blog, but refusing to back a teacher who's prepared to smash up some dumb kid is unforgiveable lefty bollocks. Looks like the watcher is taking on the principles of the watched.
Please tell me you are kidding.
If I am taking on the principles of 'the watched' (Indymedia) then I have obviously exposed for too long and must cleanse myself immediately in an acid-bath.

Ugh! The horror. Brrrr...
I think the last anonymous commenter has missed the whole point of this post and the comments exchange. It's jerks like this, who post their bile anonymously, that give people like Ted Rall vindication:
Being a student myself i feel my opinion is valid. However i have been raised up by a very politically right wing family which may impede my judgment.

Ok - This kid is merely being a complete smartass and trying to be cool and impress his friends. The teacher obviously is very patriotic about his country (no idea how old he is) and possibly fought in a war for his country. If that over indulged kid doesnt want to stand for his national anthem which is all he has to do to show his respect for his country that educates him and allows his parents to spoil him senseless then he should show that respect and stand.
As to the "political" side of it. There is nothing political about it. And yes youths showing an interest in politics is a great thing as someone mentioned but this is just absurd
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