Indy Media Watch

As you may or may not know, there actually exists countries where you can say/write things like this, and still retain your civil liberties: Fuck Denmark, fuck Sveden, fuck Holland, etc.. Only countries that have an inflated sense of themselves, will make a big fuss about such things. I live in Denmark, and I reserve the right to promounse my feelings about Denmark (and any other county) regardless.

Countries like the US, Iran (and perhaps France???) that are so saturated and blinded by their own nationalism, really need someone to step on their flags now and then.

Like most people, I haven't (and can't) choose my own citycenship. -And if one apsect or another of my country's politics disgusts me, I definatly reserve the right to express it any way I want.

Kvadrat Pedersen
 

Hey, John here in sunny Buffalo, New york. Had to follow-up on Ski's comment. You see, we (the group that I work with) are the "hosts" for http://fuc.kthe.us. Actually it is one of about three dozen websites that we host in a shared arrangement.
First, I have to laugh at this blogspot, how anyone could find indymedia then have a problem with it, and THEN not understand what or why fuc.kthe.us exists really astounds me. But then again the political climate of America really astounds me too.
Here's a thought for your "straight face", what if George Washington had been told "love it or leave it" and left? And what if Susan B. Anthony had been told "love it or leave it" and left? and What if Martin Luther King had been told "love it or leave it " and left?
Oh, gee, that was different wasn't it? Or perhaps, you don't think much of racial and gender equality or even of this failed, hijacked democracy thing?
What a waste of energy this blogspot is. We are now so much emulating the corporate media model of journalists interviewing journalists for our news. Perhaps if writers of this blogspot (or is it writer?) put their energy into "taming" the radical shrew that attempt to influence and dominate indymedia newswires (provocateurs included) then the so-called "failed indymedia experiment" would be more effective.
In my mind, people like Ski are visionaries. They push the envelope and challenge us to be better humans and secondarily, better citizens. We will continue to host sites like http://fuc.kthe.us/ ...proudly. Hey,, who knows pitch us and idea and maybe we'll host your site too. You see, our minds are open on this side of the spectrum. I include my email as we are always open to new ideas. The old ones arent working very well.
peace and solidarity,
John Curr
johnc@6is9.org
 

Mr Szymanski,

As I mentioned in the piece, "Some speculated after the FBI seized Indy Media servers the seizures may be nothing to do with Indy Media, but the Jihadist websites which also occupied the same servers" - it was not my allegation alone and it came from throughout the blogosphere, one example of which I linked to. If that was not correct, and the servers were in fact confiscated entirely due to Indy Media, I stand corrected. I eagerly look forward to the various court proceedings.

I can't recall now how I found the site, but suspect I was looking through zone records.

I appreciate your comment that Indy Media has nothing to do with fuc.kthe.us which is your personal effort. However, what people do in private affects what they do in public.

Let's say there was an offensive site hosted by someone@whitehouse.gov. Would that not have implications? So does ski@indymedia.org. The fact that you are an Indy Media leader and are associated with this DOES have implications for Indy Media in the same way a teacher involved in child-abuse (but never at the school) has implications. It's a harsh comparison but I trust it explains the point clearly.

I should point out I DO agree with some of what you write. In particular your agreement to the "worst of Indy Media". So now you know it's there - do something about it! That's been the recurring point of my Blog.

You know there's a problem. Either fix it and make it a worthwhile site and contribution to the world, or concede defeat if it's too hard and give-up. The current direction is not a good one.

Finally, I do not dismiss for a second your right to be critical of your country. It is one of the cornerstones of democracy and genuinely an acid-test of same. You won't see anti-Government editorial in North Korea. Whilst you'll see critical newspaper reporting in Israel, you won't see it in much of the Arab world and so on (where fatwas are issued for dissidents).

The statement "Fuck The US" however can hardly be called fair criticism. It's an outright damnation.

(Another outrageous example follows) Calling you an asshole is one thing, but punching you in the face is another.

That's how I feel about "Fuck The US", flag-burning or death-chants. It's not satire, it's not criticism - it's damning, highly unproductive and hypocritical if you choose to live there.

==
Mr Curr,

On the one hand, you called this blog a waste of energy. This doesn't prompt me to write a lengthy erudite reply, nonetheless:

If I choose to own a dog and my dog shits in my yard, do I ask other dog-owners to clean up after it? No.

Why should people like me (yes, it's me, not us at this stage) put OUR energy into 'taming' Indy Media's provocateurs as you argue? Why can't Indy Media accept responsibility for itself?

I appreciate you are open minded, however sometimes one can be so open-minded their brain falls out... Think it over.
 

Brian,

Thanks for your reply.

You say: "I haven't done much for indymedia in the past year, so I really couldn't be considered the moral equivalent of a leader or what have you."

Unfortunately, your email address, together with statements here
suggests otherwise to mere readers like myself. Think about it before washing your hands of significant responsibility for Indy Media.

I do agree that you and I have some common ground. As I have said elsewhere in my blog, I am not Indy Media's sworn enemy. Far from it. I see Indy Media as a potentially wonderful resource, however certainly not in its current state.

I do however insist they clean up their act. I accept this may be "easier said than done" as you say. I do not however regard that as an excuse, even though it is often touted as one, simply because no one forced Indy Media into continuing its existence.

If they want to do a job, do it right. Otherwise, don't do it at all. That's all I'm saying. Good luck!
 

John Again:
Well, if a dog shits on my sidewalk, and I care nothing about sidewalks, or dogs, or whether a dog shits-them, essentially, Why do I care?
Or more accurately, why do I care about posting on someone's blog who is neither part of the solution or relevant enough to be part of the problem, Indeed merely a distraction?
I can only assume (ASS+U+ME) that you are somehow left of center, aggravated, and dont really know where you belong. Instead of embracing a reasonably good effort at rectifying or addressing the change you merely lash out at the only effort that has presented itself at the problem.

This is, of course, understandable, as you have been lashing out at everything the mainstream has handed you, it is only natural to do the same when an alternative presents itself.

I wish you well in your cynical quest. It is quests like these that caused indymedia to concept and evolve in the first place. The difference is that your quest is a lonely, angry one, perhaps even angrier than ours, that is the indymedia folk. Ours is flawed and full of solidarity and ever changing, yours is lonely-singular, but perhaps some of us will visit you in prison, attempting to understand where your path differed from ours.
I do wish you well, the path of the critic is indeed lonely, singular, and without reward. But perhaps you need none. Your critique is helpful to us, in some small way. We will refine this process, it has always been our way. But then again the great visionaries never needed solidarity-only an audience.
Somehow I believe that at the end of the day, we will always have our audience, the unrepresented, the down trodden and the like. However, this medium will outlast us as it nudges along the vessel of of our reality. The reality that sails past websites and blog spots of those that bristle against the only realistic voice of change that we know. As Indymedia continues and evolves, improves, and gains from little blogs and its other detractors, the tiny ankle biters will fall away.

Perhaps not now, but perhaps moreso in the future, we will cease to eat our own and find benefit from our harshest critics and they may find a place under our umbrella.

Utopian? No, But be part of something. Whether it be the solution or the problem.
Commentary is simple. Action takes work.
Do you propose a solution, or merely take shots at those who do?
What have you done (beyond this little blog) to effect positive change in our world?
Please, the silence is deafening.....
peace and solidarity,
john
johnc@buffaloimc.org
 

What have I done?
Do you not think I tried (totally in vain) to point out the shortcomings of various Indymedia sites to their administration? Do you not think I posted comments pointing out inaccurate reporting, bias, racism, bigotry and bullshit? Do you not think I tried?

I did. And you know what happened? SFA. That's what. Frankly, I was fed up with Indy Media and like many others was about to cease reading it for good. But I thought there has to be a better way.

So I started a blog to document the wholesale failure of IMC management to accept they have a problem and do anything about it. Your comment is another symptom of the problem. You summarily dismiss me as a rebel without a cause rather than accepting that maybe, just maybe I may have a point. No, I can't fix IMC myself but then, I don't run around singing its virtues whilst it wallows in the muck.

Those who can do something about it (for example someone with IMC in their email address) have what seems like an easy choice. Yours I'm afraid is the wrong one.
 

Did the Founding Fathers say 'If you don't like British rule, go and live somewhere else'?

I don't think so.
 

If you don't like it, leave.
 

[quote]If you don't like it, leave[/quote]

NO, what people say is a RIGHT. It doesn't matter that you think its hate speech or disagree with it. If you dont like to hear it, then YOU leave.
 

what people say is a RIGHT.

While we are talking about rights, it's important to remember that your right to swing your arms around stops at my face. Ditto shouting fire in a theatre or speech which incites to violence

It doesn't matter that you think its hate speech or disagree with it.

So if I understand you correctly, I am not entitled to the same rights (my thoughts don't matter) presumably because you don't agree with me? Rights to speech for some it seems...

If you dont like to hear it, then YOU leave.
I'm not going to engage in a boring argument over whether he is obliged to leave, he isn't. What I have said however is that if he chooses to live in the US of his free will with the priveleges this entails, and has not emigrated (and in other countries people do not always have that option) he should quit his bitching. If he doesn't like it, he should leave as is his right. Otherwise he's just offensive.

Thanks for visiting.
 

Isn't the whole idea of a democracy to change the government for the better? It's anti-democratic to say "Love it or leave it", there are more options than that. Should all people who don't agree with you leave? I'm sure that's your wet dream.
 

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